Conversation with a(nother) liberal

I sent my post on Liberalism vs. Muslim Extremism to a (somewhat) liberal fellow student and asked for his input/reaction. I made it clear I was not being antagonistic; I honestly sought his reaction. Thankfully, his reply was very friendly, and we understand each other better. Here is his response and my reply:

Hey there seth, well I read everything and overall you do have some very good points about the majority of the liberals we see on television and hear on radio and such. Most liberals don't care much for christianity, and even I, as a christian, don't like christian culture. I do not consider myself an extreme liberal mainly because I honestly do not care about the environment, and the economy and such really don't bother me but I absolutely cannot stand christian culture. As a pastor's son I grew up around it my entire life and to this day all I ever see are people that are trying to hide something, yet when approached about whatever it may be I've only found anger and resentment. Aren't we suppose to help our fellow brother or sisters in Christ? I do believe we are, yet I've been condemned over and over again for trying to help. I know God would not want it this way yet it has been the same for hundreds of years. Anywho in your final points i certainly could not disagree with any of them but one, that being that we as liberals are oppresive to women. I for one have fought for over two years against the intolerance of the Southern Baptist Convention to allow women in every aspect of ministry. If there is a place where women are oppressed it is the extreme conservative evangelical churches. They aren't allowed to teach a sunday school class in which men are present, they aren't allowed to preach from the pulpit, and in alot of cases they aren't even allowed to be deacons. Jesus would not have had it this way, he himself used many different types of people, women included, to teach and I believe that the idea that women should not be in leadership positions is based on misinterpretation of a few verses in the Bible. I was in Waco, Texas a few years ago to witness Calvary Baptist Church call to the pulpit their first female pastor....and guess who was picketing on a sunday morning as people came to church? People from local conservative baptist churches! They were ignoring their own ministry to picket a female pastor, who I must say that even you would probably be extremely impressed with. She is one of the most fabulous ministers I have ever heard, and she's certainly better than any male pastor in that city and i've heard most of them. Anywho I think you have some very valid points about liberalism and such, very well researched! We should really sit down and talk sometime, its near impossible for me to get all my ideas across in an e-mail. Peace.

I was very pleased with his friendliness, not to mention the fact that he ceded almost all my points! Here's my reply:

Griffin, thanks SO much for your reply. I totally understand and agree with a lot of your feelings concerning Christian culture. We definitely have problems; we certainly are not perfect. I am a (former) pastor's son as well, so we have some common ground there. Sometimes Christians are the worst because we feel like we shouldn't have problems, so we cover them up even better than non-believers, and that just makes it all worse. I definitely grieve the image that many people have of Christianity. One anectdote I've heard is that waiters/waitresses absolutely hate Sunday afternoons because that's when all the Christians come in and are very rude and tip horribly. I hate that!!!

I'm kinda confused on one thing: are you a democrat because you don't want to identify with the "Christian right culture"? (and I can see why you wouldn't) Since you don't care much about the economy/environment--issues that kinda go with democrats--is your party status simply a reaction?

About women's roles in the church: The environment I grew up in took the view that certain roles were for men only--including pastorship (I'm not sure about deacons). It's got nothing to do with inferiority of women or anything, just about scripture-defined roles; I guess it comes down to what you said--a difference of interpretation of scripture. I haven't solidified my views yet, so I'm totally willing to research the topic and then make a decision.

What I meant about liberalism's oppresion of women is this: liberalism created/advocates the culture that demeans women from what they are--the pinnacle of God's creation. The Hollywood culture objectifies women and wants them to be something they're not. That, to me, is oppression. The other form of oppression is related to abortion. Here's what I think: abortion in 99% of the cases is wrong; the other 1% is unfortunate, but in the case where somebody is going to die (either baby or mother), a utilitarian argument is morally acceptable. I also think abortion is here to stay. The biggest problem I have with liberals is that they seem to support abortion for abortion's sake. They don't want women to be fully-informed about their choices--the key here is that choice is plural, not just the option of abortion. I want women to know every option they have, to see the ultrasound of their baby, to understand the medical risks involved. What the liberals do concerning abortion, I belive, is oppression.

I hope he replies again. I'll post it if he does.