The Triumph of Truth…again
The email that started it all: "I posted on my blog the conversation I've been having through email with a liberal democrat friend of mine. It's kinda long, other wise I'd embed the text in this email. Thought you might be interested. "
_________________
He responds 10/29/04
Thanks for the debate :) That was fairly interesting. But as for me, I guess I've kind of given up debating. I've decided that you can back up both sides forever, without one side ever winning. If you put a strictly Republican up against a strictly Democrat, you will never get anywhere! So, why debate? I am voting for Kerry because I can't think of anything Bush has done for our country. We've pretty much plumeted in every aspect. Of your three answers you gave [a mutual friend] about what Bush has done for our country, two were about what Bush has done for Iraq and the third was an opinion(that we need lower taxes). What does any of that have to do with our country? Nothing, unless you take into account that we are in horrible economic standing. I guess Bush has done THAT for us! So...debate? What's the point?! Thanks though for sharing your insight.
_________________
I respond 10/30/04
I know you've given up debating, but let me respond to what you said.
What Bush has done for Iraq is exactly the point! Bush has protected Americans by taking the fight to the terrorists themselves, choosing the battleground so they don't choose it for us--which would be on our soil and with our civilian lives. When you have terrorists pouring over the borders into Iraq to fight us, I am happy because it's less work for us to do. We don't have to search them out across the globe; they are all in one place, which makes them easier to kill. It also is a testimony to the fact that Iraq is in fact a truly important battle in the War on Terror. Freeing 50 million people and establishing 2 democracies in a region brimming with
Islamo-fascist hatred for America cannot possibly be construed as bad for us. If you concede the points about Bush doing good things for Iraq, you need to understand the context of why they were done--not just to free a brutalized people, but to maintain our safety. That alone is enough to elect President Bush.
Second, we are not in "horrible economic standing." True, we had a recession, but it was not the fault of the president. In fact, it had already begun before Bush was even sworn in. The dot com boom busted, and then 9/11 hit. Those were devastating to our economy. So the only thing we
can measure about Bush's handling of the economy is how he has grown it since it crashed and burned. While it is true that we are not in the best economic situation ever, we are growing at an incredible rate--the fastest in 20 years. If you inherit a crappy situation and make the best possible ends out of it, that's a good job. One can't judge Bush's economic record simply by observing that "Bush is the first president who lost jobs in his term." You must look at it in context. One should say, "Wow! The economy sure got hit hard through unforseeable events, but during Bush's first term we pulled out of the recession very very fast and are now growing at a record pace!"
Sure, the idea that we need lower taxes is an opinion. But so is any statement that Bush has done a good job, or a bad one, or that John Kerry would do a good job, or a bad one. I try to form educated opinions based on facts. FACT: As a general rule, people spend their own money far better than the government does. This is one fact that helps lead me to conclude that, since people are better stewards of their resources than the government, the people should be able to keep more of their own money and the government should be less involved in peoples' lives. It is an opinion, but it is an opinion based on facts. Thus, I believe that Bush's tax cuts are good for
America. Hope you understand. Thanks, man.
_________________
His responds 10/30/04
You form educated opinions based on facts? Awesome! Check out these facts:
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2004/03/presidential_jo.html
http://vidiot.typepad.com/telescreen/2004/02/average_monthly.html
"FACT: As a general rule, people spend their own money far better than the government does." What general rule is that? I've never heard that general rule. Where did you get that "fact"?
_________________
I respond 10/31/04
Did you read my email? A fact is useless if it's not put into CONTEXT. Here are some reasons for the economic situation of the last few years: a recession; the dot com boom that busted; corporate scandals that hurt consumers (and were cracked down on by Bush, I might add); the economic devestation caused by 3,000 civilian casualties on our soil; two major wars; and "daily badmouthing of the economy as a concerted political strategy by the entire Democratic Party." Also, the economy created near 100,000 jobs in September, as Florida got hit by massive hurricanes that affected millions of people and thousands of businesses. When the economy is put into CONTEXT, it is in amazing shape.
Here are a few "facts" for you:
Our GDP increased by 3.7% in the 3rd quarter.
In August, personal income increased by 0.4%
In the 2nd quarter, corporate profits increased $8.3 billion
Click here to see a chart of the change in Real GDP from 2000-2004:
http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/newsrel/gdp_glance.htm
(by the way, this is from the Bureau of Economic Analysis)
Want to see how the media has distorted any good news on the economy, and
always spins it negative?
http://www.mediaresearchcenter.com/projects/worst/welcome.asp#economy
And about the FACT that people spend their money better than governments? Look around you! Do you trust government bureaucracies to manage and spend your money, or would you rather do it. Look at history. Look at socialism, where the government is in charge of all means of production. It's worthless! Nobody denies this fact, and yes it is a fact.
_________________
He responds 10/31/04
FACT: I cannot spend my money on the building of roads. I cannot spend my money on missile production. I cannot spend my money on importing oil.
_________________
I respond 10/31/04
Here is a direct quote from two emails ago:
"FACT: As a general rule, people spend their own money far better than the government does. This is one fact that helps lead me to conclude that, since people are better stewards of their resources than the government, the people should be able to keep more of their own money and the government should be less involved in peoples' lives."
Note: I said as a GENERAL rule. Not every single case. Obviously there are things that only the government can feasibly provide and maintain. Also, I said that people should be able to keep MORE of their money, not all. I'm not advocating no government at all; that would be stupid.
_________________
He responds 11/1/04
You are right! That would be stupid.
_________________
Folks, we've reached the point where arguments cannot be made! When the only response to a well-articulated argument is to sarcastically "agree" with me, that's when I know I've won the debate.
_________________
He responds 10/29/04
Thanks for the debate :) That was fairly interesting. But as for me, I guess I've kind of given up debating. I've decided that you can back up both sides forever, without one side ever winning. If you put a strictly Republican up against a strictly Democrat, you will never get anywhere! So, why debate? I am voting for Kerry because I can't think of anything Bush has done for our country. We've pretty much plumeted in every aspect. Of your three answers you gave [a mutual friend] about what Bush has done for our country, two were about what Bush has done for Iraq and the third was an opinion(that we need lower taxes). What does any of that have to do with our country? Nothing, unless you take into account that we are in horrible economic standing. I guess Bush has done THAT for us! So...debate? What's the point?! Thanks though for sharing your insight.
_________________
I respond 10/30/04
I know you've given up debating, but let me respond to what you said.
What Bush has done for Iraq is exactly the point! Bush has protected Americans by taking the fight to the terrorists themselves, choosing the battleground so they don't choose it for us--which would be on our soil and with our civilian lives. When you have terrorists pouring over the borders into Iraq to fight us, I am happy because it's less work for us to do. We don't have to search them out across the globe; they are all in one place, which makes them easier to kill. It also is a testimony to the fact that Iraq is in fact a truly important battle in the War on Terror. Freeing 50 million people and establishing 2 democracies in a region brimming with
Islamo-fascist hatred for America cannot possibly be construed as bad for us. If you concede the points about Bush doing good things for Iraq, you need to understand the context of why they were done--not just to free a brutalized people, but to maintain our safety. That alone is enough to elect President Bush.
Second, we are not in "horrible economic standing." True, we had a recession, but it was not the fault of the president. In fact, it had already begun before Bush was even sworn in. The dot com boom busted, and then 9/11 hit. Those were devastating to our economy. So the only thing we
can measure about Bush's handling of the economy is how he has grown it since it crashed and burned. While it is true that we are not in the best economic situation ever, we are growing at an incredible rate--the fastest in 20 years. If you inherit a crappy situation and make the best possible ends out of it, that's a good job. One can't judge Bush's economic record simply by observing that "Bush is the first president who lost jobs in his term." You must look at it in context. One should say, "Wow! The economy sure got hit hard through unforseeable events, but during Bush's first term we pulled out of the recession very very fast and are now growing at a record pace!"
Sure, the idea that we need lower taxes is an opinion. But so is any statement that Bush has done a good job, or a bad one, or that John Kerry would do a good job, or a bad one. I try to form educated opinions based on facts. FACT: As a general rule, people spend their own money far better than the government does. This is one fact that helps lead me to conclude that, since people are better stewards of their resources than the government, the people should be able to keep more of their own money and the government should be less involved in peoples' lives. It is an opinion, but it is an opinion based on facts. Thus, I believe that Bush's tax cuts are good for
America. Hope you understand. Thanks, man.
_________________
His responds 10/30/04
You form educated opinions based on facts? Awesome! Check out these facts:
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2004/03/presidential_jo.html
http://vidiot.typepad.com/telescreen/2004/02/average_monthly.html
"FACT: As a general rule, people spend their own money far better than the government does." What general rule is that? I've never heard that general rule. Where did you get that "fact"?
_________________
I respond 10/31/04
Did you read my email? A fact is useless if it's not put into CONTEXT. Here are some reasons for the economic situation of the last few years: a recession; the dot com boom that busted; corporate scandals that hurt consumers (and were cracked down on by Bush, I might add); the economic devestation caused by 3,000 civilian casualties on our soil; two major wars; and "daily badmouthing of the economy as a concerted political strategy by the entire Democratic Party." Also, the economy created near 100,000 jobs in September, as Florida got hit by massive hurricanes that affected millions of people and thousands of businesses. When the economy is put into CONTEXT, it is in amazing shape.
Here are a few "facts" for you:
Our GDP increased by 3.7% in the 3rd quarter.
In August, personal income increased by 0.4%
In the 2nd quarter, corporate profits increased $8.3 billion
Click here to see a chart of the change in Real GDP from 2000-2004:
http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/newsrel/gdp_glance.htm
(by the way, this is from the Bureau of Economic Analysis)
Want to see how the media has distorted any good news on the economy, and
always spins it negative?
http://www.mediaresearchcenter.com/projects/worst/welcome.asp#economy
And about the FACT that people spend their money better than governments? Look around you! Do you trust government bureaucracies to manage and spend your money, or would you rather do it. Look at history. Look at socialism, where the government is in charge of all means of production. It's worthless! Nobody denies this fact, and yes it is a fact.
_________________
He responds 10/31/04
FACT: I cannot spend my money on the building of roads. I cannot spend my money on missile production. I cannot spend my money on importing oil.
_________________
I respond 10/31/04
Here is a direct quote from two emails ago:
"FACT: As a general rule, people spend their own money far better than the government does. This is one fact that helps lead me to conclude that, since people are better stewards of their resources than the government, the people should be able to keep more of their own money and the government should be less involved in peoples' lives."
Note: I said as a GENERAL rule. Not every single case. Obviously there are things that only the government can feasibly provide and maintain. Also, I said that people should be able to keep MORE of their money, not all. I'm not advocating no government at all; that would be stupid.
_________________
He responds 11/1/04
You are right! That would be stupid.
_________________
Folks, we've reached the point where arguments cannot be made! When the only response to a well-articulated argument is to sarcastically "agree" with me, that's when I know I've won the debate.
posted by Seth at 11:40 AM
0 Comments:
Post a Comment
<< Home